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07-10-2024, 05:34 PM
sindriiisgaming
You pull you tank question.
Ive been seeing significantly more of this since dt started-
Tank says nothing for 90% then gets mad on final pull because sm1 else pulled. Refuses to tank the mobs and even the boss.
Same story every time -Where exactly do the GMs stand on this issue. Where exactly do the tos stand on this issue? And where do you the players stand on this issue.
Is it against tos?
If not should it be?
Are there exceptions where its okay to refuse to tank?07-10-2024, 05:37 PM
TaleraRistain
What is the tank doing when they get mad? Refusing to tank anymore?
I don't care if someone runs ahead. I just hope they use arm's length and bring them to my AoE range so I don't have to chase them to Narnia for aggro.
07-10-2024, 05:47 PM
Ayalu
Dpends in the situation.
If i ask the Healer and the Healer want short pulls i would get angry that they undermine the preference of those that need to handle it.If nothing got mentioned in before i just take it as a sign to pull more but really...its not the DPS who should decide that its between Tank and Healer.
07-10-2024, 05:54 PM
CamuiKushi
YPYT could be considered lethargic gameplay which is reportable. A person in a role should be doing that role to the best of their ability, it's literally in the TOS. This can of course vary from situation to situation as Ayalu says.
Edit: I will say, at the end of the day it's up to whether the healer can keep the tank alive so they should get final say. But if you're DPS and you want the tank to pull more though, just ask. The worst they can do is say no.
07-10-2024, 06:04 PM
AngaratoSvartberg
as a long time tank its extremely annoying when other people pull. specially in the newer dungeons. just chill and let them pull. if its "too slow" either ask nicely to pull more or deal with it.
that being said i wouldnt be petty about it and stop tanking. however if i have to ask people multiple times to stop pulling and they refuse ill stop and boot that person out.
07-10-2024, 06:05 PM
Saraide
Activate sprint.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngaratoSvartberg
as a long time tank its extremely annoying when other people pull. specially in the newer dungeons. just chill and let them pull. if its "too slow" either ask nicely to pull more or deal with it.
that being said i wouldnt be petty about it and stop tanking. however if i have to ask people multiple times to stop pulling and they refuse ill stop and boot that person out.
07-10-2024, 06:06 PM
FudoMyoo
It you want to pull, play tank.
You pull you tank! /no question.
07-10-2024, 06:08 PM
loosie
As a tank, if healers or DPS want to run ahead and collect mobs for me, I welcome it. I'm there to play the game, not to pretend to be more important than I really am.
07-10-2024, 06:12 PM
Tint
Well here are the rules:
So yes refusing to tank is against the rules. But running ahead and start pulling could be considered "uncooperative behavior" and "aiding the enemy" as well.Quote:
Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.Each player has a different level of skill, and in some cases, there may be a situation where the duty/content will fail. From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately.
For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):
"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."
"I don't think we can clear this anyway, so I'll just get hit by the enemy attack and go AFK after I'm knocked out."
"I'm going to join the opposing team as a healer and do nothing so my friends on the other team can win the PvP content."If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.
Please note that Square Enix may conduct investigations and issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed if the act has been confirmed publicly through online video, streaming services, or other means.
07-10-2024, 06:13 PM
Nestama
Okay but then like... why did the tank queue at all then? If they're not tanking, then they should leave. DPS will still be DPSing if they pull and Healers will heal when necessary if they pull. A tank not tanking should leave as they're not doing what they queued for.Quote:
Originally Posted by FudoMyoo
07-10-2024, 06:13 PM
CamuiKushi
This is my attitude as well TBH. So long as they come to me so I can grab aggro without struggling, I don't care. Makes my job easier, if anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie
As a tank, if healers or DPS want to run ahead and collect mobs for me, I welcome it. I'm there to play the game, not to pretend to be more important than I really am.
07-10-2024, 06:15 PM
Supersnow845
I just don’t see the benefit of YPYT, tanks literally generate 10* agro for their attacks (20* on their ranged attacks)
If someone else pulls then just do one AOE and you have agro again
07-10-2024, 06:16 PM
Larirawiel
In FF14 "you pull, you tank" is totally stupid. Since it is very easy to get the aggro back. You push one button and you are done. The "you pull, you tank"-thing comes from other games, where it is not easy for tanks to get the aggro back.
Cheers
07-10-2024, 06:20 PM
ryouma17
there are people who still do YPYT? sounds like you were unlucky i havent gotten any groups like that since the WoW refugees left, all my dawntrail dungeons have been smooth so far
07-10-2024, 06:24 PM
NailBach
As a DRK playing the new dungeons get's a bit weird if for example a PIC decides to pull, they generate so much aggro at the start of the pull that it's sometimes hard to get it of them in time. Otherwise i don't really care. You bring the mobs to me, i pick them up.
07-10-2024, 07:02 PM
Eluvyel
You're violating two different rules of the ToS doing that. Lethargic Play and MPK. One day it'll be a report too many.Quote:
Originally Posted by FudoMyoo
It you want to pull, play tank.
You pull you tank! /no question.
07-10-2024, 07:13 PM
Malthir
I put this in the other thread discussing this but I'll put it here for you too. Dps generally don't pay attention to the group as a whole. I've tanked since ARR. In the current state of the game I start with wall to wall, if the group is struggling as in I'm having to pop living dead because the healer forgot he was a healer, from then on it's small pulls for this group I can't trust them to keep my ass alive. If you're not the person getting hit, you're not the person who gets to decide how many people get to hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
Okay but then like... why did the tank queue at all then? If they're not tanking, then they should leave. DPS will still be DPSing if they pull and Healers will heal when necessary if they pull. A tank not tanking should leave as they're not doing what they queued for.
One could argue the DPS are violating terms by pulling. Disruptive play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluvyel
You're violating two different rules of the ToS doing that. Lethargic Play and MPK. One day it'll be a report too many.
07-10-2024, 08:03 PM
loosie
If it's explicitly the tank's job to pull but isn't pulling, isn't that being disruptive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
One could argue the DPS are violating terms by pulling. Disruptive play.
07-10-2024, 08:06 PM
Nestama
And the odds of wiping in a dungeon pull are what? Extremely low in level 50/60/70/80/90/100 content from what I've experienced anyway. Levelling not included because everyone knows those pulls can be spicy (except in DT it seems).
Living Dead should be used as a CD anyway and that could be what the Healer is counting on if you're running DRK.
07-10-2024, 08:12 PM
Gunz_Zbestest
It might have been a relevant statement to make like 3 expansions ago when aggro was...let's not say broken, but required higher dps or a blm could easily rip one or two away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
In FF14 "you pull, you tank" is totally stupid. Since it is very easy to get the aggro back. You push one button and you are done. The "you pull, you tank"-thing comes from other games, where it is not easy for tanks to get the aggro back.
Cheers
These days, if a dps runs around a corner and grabs mobs for me because I didn't see the door? Bring them over here friend, throw that wood on the pile.07-10-2024, 08:15 PM
Malthir
But we're not talking the tank isn't pulling, what is being said is the tank isn't pulling at the speed you would like. That's like reporting DPS because they aren't killing things fast enough or in the order you like. While I agree it's generally better to wall to wall pull, that decision lies with the person who has to deal with all the mobs not the person who doesn't have to care and just wants to see a certain colour next to their name on a certain website that should not be named. So yeah unless you speak to the tank before hand it's toxic to just pull more mobs over and expect the tank to take them off you. You pull it, well then you're now responsible for the damage those mobs do to you this fight, enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie
If it's explicitly the tank's job to pull but isn't pulling, isn't that being disruptive?
07-10-2024, 08:26 PM
loosie
Nobody's parsing story dungeons my dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
But we're not talking the tank isn't pulling, what is being said is the tank isn't pulling at the speed you would like. That's like reporting DPS because they aren't killing things fast enough or in the order you like. While I agree it's generally better to wall to wall pull, that decision lies with the person who has to deal with all the mobs not the person who doesn't have to care and just wants to see a certain colour next to their name on a certain website that should not be named. So yeah unless you speak to the tank before hand it's toxic to just pull more mobs over and expect the tank to take them off you. You pull it, well then you're now responsible for the damage those mobs do to you this fight, enjoy.
The thing is, if you're not tanking, you're not playing the game. It's that simple. When you go into a dungeon, you're expected to cooperate and play the game and there's nothing saying that pulling and killing mobs isn't being cooperative, as it's working towards the end goal.
It's only your decision to wall-to-wall or not as is dependent on your own ability. If you can't handle it, that's perfectly fine and while the group will suffer from a lack of skill, the blame won't be on bad behavior. If you intentionally stop playing to ruin the experience of other players in the group, that's very poor form and rightfully bannable. If you try your best and the mobs are dead, the only negative impact a non-tank pulling I can imagine has is to your ego.If we're going to talk gameplay, in reality all you actually have to do to be an effective tank is stand still and mash your AoE combo until everything is dead while the rest of the party gathers mobs. You're not unable to do that, and the only reason you choose to stop tanking is because you feel slighted, which there is absolutely no reason to.
07-10-2024, 08:32 PM
Dakimakura
People that genuinely get upset about a healer or dps pulling more mobs and saying "you pull you tank" really comes off as the kind of People that say "you don't pay my sub!" And will insist on playing a specific way, even if it is a detriment to the group.
As long as you have stance on, spam aoe or attacks and maybe use your provoke on stragglers, you will take the aggro and continue the duty as normal. And if you do wipe then the extra amount that was pulled was obviously more than the healer could handle.
07-10-2024, 08:43 PM
jackass1203
People that pull or get a head aren't really an issue if that's what they want to do. The main issue I've been seeing are those that get aggro and run away from me.
I'm at the point where I tell them once to not run away and after that it's on them.07-10-2024, 08:52 PM
SuRge991
I only get pissed when the party is talking about mechs and pointers about a fight and some DPS decides that he can't wait for us to finish talking about problem solving the thing that killed us- resulting in even more deaths.
Outside of that situation, I don't think it's a big deal- not enough to start fights over. Just talk it out and if they don't listen, just do what you usually do. If you pull aggro off of them, great! If not, meh. Though I imagine that's a pain in the ass to healers.
07-10-2024, 09:00 PM
Souljacker
Y'all squinting so hard to make this the tank's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluvyel
You're violating two different rules of the ToS doing that. Lethargic Play and MPK. One day it'll be a report too many.
Lethargic play isn't actively tanking the group the tank pulled. There's no explicit contract that I'm going to tank additional, sometimes optional, packs someone else thought they would pull. You have no idea what I can handle, maybe I know in 5 seconds I need to look away from the screen because I'm not an NPC and my kitten just jumped on the curtain again. I'll finish this pack, then say a quick AFK. Oh wait, I can't, because the DPS is being 'helpful'. Lethargic play, ffs are you kidding me?
And MPK isn't a DPS grabbing mobs they have no ability to handle on their own and then dying because no one came to save them. An MPK is pulling a mob to an unsuspecting player and then in some way dropping aggro so that player gets killed by the monster instead. Holy crow folks, you wonder why no one wants to play with you.
What y'all are suggesting is the potential MPK.
07-10-2024, 09:06 PM
TBerry
It occasionally still happens with BRD. But that's just something that can happen and is no one's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest
It might have been a relevant statement to make like 3 expansions ago when aggro was...let's not say broken, but required higher dps or a blm could easily rip one or two away.
These days, if a dps runs around a corner and grabs mobs for me because I didn't see the door? Bring them over here friend, throw that wood on the pile.07-10-2024, 09:25 PM
Doriann
Bad tanks are going to be bad regardless. Just hit provoke and/or the aoe combo and you get the aggro, otherwise it's just lazyness and a meaningless idea of "Power" that comes with tanking. Most of the dungeons can be done without a healer, and many can even be done with full dps and a competent healer, so just provoke/AoE and move on with the dungeon
07-10-2024, 09:26 PM
Gunz_Zbestest
Exactly, mistakes happen. Not only that but as a tank, If you quietly crossed your arms and said 'let them eat that mob', you're also putting the burden onto the healer who has no idea what your game plan is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TBerry
It occasionally still happens with BRD. But that's just something that can happen and is no one's fault.
07-10-2024, 09:30 PM
Kaurhz
YPYT would constitute as lethargic gameplay.
Though it's an MMO, so really people should be using their social skills to communicate with the other player(s) in your party.
If I were to pull small (Which I don't), then I wouldn't care if someone pulled extra, either communicate it with me or at the very least bring the mobs to me, so I can pull aggro. I certainly am not playing a game of tag or ring-around-the-rosie with a DPS that pulls and then kites them to kingdom come.
07-10-2024, 09:30 PM
Malthir
Tell me you've never played Drk without telling me, EVERY pull is a fight to survive, sure if you're a warrior who give a crap they don't even need a party to do content. However for Drks in particular, the larger the pull the higher the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie
If we're going to talk gameplay, in reality all you actually have to do to be an effective tank is stand still and mash your AoE combo until everything is dead while the rest of the party gathers mobs. You're not unable to do that, and the only reason you choose to stop tanking is because you feel slighted, which there is absolutely no reason to.
However even without Drks being in the state they are, I am doing my job I'm tanking the mobs I pulled. I would never say a tank should just AFK and wipe the whole party, that's petty. What I'm saying is, if I pulled 3 and I'm fighting 3, if you then decide you want more mobs, and you couldn't careless about the resources I've burnt so don't have the mit to deal with this right now, you're dealing with them till I'm ready to pick them up, if you die because of that, that's on you.
07-10-2024, 09:32 PM
Revash
In WoW where there are skipable trash packs. The philosophy "You pull it, you tank it" is more prevalent. Here where its wall to wall and you are bound to pull that trash anyway, doesn't matter much.
The only time when I let the DPS "have it" is when the DPS outright pulls a pack or two before I can even touch them with my aoe and starts kitting around like headless chickens then I won't play their "catch the mouse" game and let them...have it.07-10-2024, 09:53 PM
Sunhwapark
Risk of what exactly? I haven't ever had such a problem when I run dungeons on DRK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
However for Drks in particular, the larger the pull the higher the risk.
07-10-2024, 10:02 PM
Kennar
Why are there two threads about this on the front page, and one front-and-center on the tank forum? If you are a tank and you are not Number 1 on the aggro table, then you are not doing your job. If you're a DPS or healer and you are not bringing hate to the tank so he can pull it off of you, then you are not doing your job. This isn't new. Do your damn job.
And stop threatening to report everybody for every little infraction or mistake. Do you call the cops when someone makes a right turn in front you without signaling first? No (though I get the feeling some of you would). Move on. God, I feel like an old man yelling at clouds.
07-10-2024, 10:03 PM
Saraide
The only problem you'll have as drk is if the group is doing low dps which it will when you intentionally let someone die. All you are doing is self sabotage lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
Tell me you've never played Drk without telling me, EVERY pull is a fight to survive, sure if you're a warrior who give a crap they don't even need a party to do content. However for Drks in particular, the larger the pull the higher the risk.
However even without Drks being in the state they are, I am doing my job I'm tanking the mobs I pulled. I would never say a tank should just AFK and wipe the whole party, that's petty. What I'm saying is, if I pulled 3 and I'm fighting 3, if you then decide you want more mobs, and you couldn't careless about the resources I've burnt so don't have the mit to deal with this right now, you're dealing with them till I'm ready to pick them up, if you die because of that, that's on you.
07-10-2024, 10:05 PM
freekyfreezer
I doubt that attacking a mob is against the terms of service, otherwise virtually anyone who has ever cleared Sastasha would need to be banned from the game. The You tank, You pull mentality is the worst mindset in the game. It is so inexplicably stupid that I can't even find the right words for it. Like you are in a roulette and all you have to do is just press the same few buttons for 15 minutes straight and you get your reward. To burst into some narcissistic rage because the DPS knows the dungeon better is just insane. Usually I just try to get the tank kicked, but it doesn't work when there is loot (another flawless execution by SE)
07-10-2024, 10:05 PM
Lynaval
You spank, you tank. That is and has always been the rule. Simple as that.
07-10-2024, 10:05 PM
Sunhwapark
Well, to be fair one thread was from today and another was created 2 years ago, a certain Highlander faced poster just happened to necro it recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennar
Why are there two threads about this on the front page.
07-10-2024, 10:14 PM
ShariusTC
i don't really care, but i am quite a lazy tank, if someone run first and pull mob, they better bring it back to me, or i will take it when we arrive to destination, i won't bother to pop sprint to chase after them
07-10-2024, 10:21 PM
MeanDragon
I never understood the "Tank pulls" anyway. The games I played before this, usually the ranged damage dealer would grab the mobs and bring them back to the tank. But it is what it is in this game.
If you are going to pull mobs, please just bring them back to the tank's AOE so they can get the aggro off of you. I personally don't like dragging a pack of mobs around the room chasing things.
Tanks, if you feel like the healer can't keep up and you are using your mits too fast, just say something like "Hey, I am not able to keep up with these pulls can we slow down, please?" Then if they decide to keep doing it, vote kick.
And the YPYT crowd, if you are going stop playing over someone pulling mobs for you, just leave the duty so they can get someone else to help them.
Most of us are adults here. Maybe, it is time we acted like it.
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